Phil Ross Supporters Demand Vote On Appeal
Ross' supporters said council should have voted whether to appeal the Civil Service Commission's ruling. Borough attorneys say no further vote was needed because the appeal stemmed from his demotion, which was voted on.
Dormont Council should have voted whether to appeal the Civil Service Commission’s ruling overturning of Phil Ross’ demotion from chief to sergeant, according to Ross’ supporters, but borough attorneys said no vote was needed.
Councilwoman Joan Hodson said council President Kim Lusardi informed her council wouldn’t vote on the appeal.
“Isn’t that a violation of the Sunshine Law?” Hodson said at Monday’s meeting.
Ross supporters demanded a vote—or to simply drop the case.
“Why don’t you just hang it up that you lost,” one woman said at the raucous meeting, which Mayor Tom Lloyd later called the most embarrassing he’s seen.
“We want it voted on,” said Valerie Martino, Ross’ sister-in-law and a council candidate. “Enough is enough.”
“Why are you afraid to take this vote?” said Michelle Ross, Phil Ross’ wife.
Hodson offered a motion to have the appeal voted on, but no one seconded it Monday.
For a time, council couldn’t even get enough votes to end the meeting.
Lloyd, who favored a vote, said legal fees have cost more than $20,000, with more bills to come.
Chris Gabriel, the borough’s labor council, wasn't at the meeting, but later said a vote wasn’t needed.
“Did (council) take an official vote to turn the lights on and set the air conditioner, because that spends borough money,” he said. “Yes, they have to vote on borough things … but to take that to its logical conclusion, you would have to vote every time somebody sneezes."
Solicitor Deron Gabriel also said no vote was required.
“The appeal of the civil service determination stemmed directly from the legal action brought by Phil Ross’ attorney challenging the publicly voted upon demotion,” he said. “In addition, (Manager Gino Rizza) stated that council was polled and a majority expressed a desire to stand by and not revisit their prior demotion, based on the evidence of record.”
That polling, he said, did not constitute a vote.
“The polling is an ancillary fact and was done by the manager to determine if the matter was to be placed upon the voting agenda,” he said.
Hodson stood by her assertion that a vote was needed.
“The result of that poll was to proceed with an appeal. This was an action by council, which must be voted on,” she said Wednesday.
Melissa Melewsky, an attorney with the Pennsylvania Newspaper Publishers Association, said in her experience, most agencies vote whether to appeal.
“As a public access advocate, I would say yes, they should have voted on it. But I don’t know that that wins the day in court,” she said.
“The problem is, there’s nothing set in concrete whether an appeal is an official action,” she said.
Drew Lehman said he supported the appeal.
"When the issues were brought out, there was nothing brought out to disprove or dispute the issues that Gino and the borough brought against Phil," he said.
Schmidt said it was always clear the borough would appeal if Ross won before the Civil Service Commission.
"When I was a little kid, (Ross) was always kind and I looked up to him. In recent years, I have gotten to know him and Michelle a bit and think that they are wonderful people," she said. "That being said, I just don’t feel that Phil was getting the job done as chief."
She said she didn't understand why he appealed his demotion and had thought, based on conversations with him, that he would have stepped down.
"Another thing that I don’t understand is why the people that are upset haven't taken a look out their windows and realize that we now have a police force under (acting Chief Richard) Dwyer's leadership that is getting out there and doing their jobs," she said. "I have seen more car patrols and foot patrols in the last few months than I have in the last few years combined and I have heard the same thing from loads of people."
Lorenzo
8:07 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
I would expect a vote on this matter as it is an issue that is going to take more money from the Boro. Apparently Council dosent care about that.
Dormont Resident
8:31 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
I must be looking out the wrong window, Heather, because I haven't seen any more (or less) police than I always have. I guess that is how you are trying to justify that $5500/month paycheck us taxpayers are paying him to sit behind a desk? Are you are saying they weren't doing there jobs before he got there?
Leah Petrilli
8:51 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
As Heather Schmidt has publicly admitted a romantic relationship with Gino Rizza why she is comment upon or participating with any disciplinary action involving anything in any way shape or form pertaining to Rizza is beyond me. Also if Drew Lehman supports appeals let him pay for it out of his own pocket. Let anyone who wants to drag this matter out pony up their own cash and see how quickly this resolves.
Can juris doctors be sued for legal malpractice the way medical doctors are sued for medical malpractice?
Lee
5:55 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
I am sure Heather knows the law better than you.
dormonter
6:38 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Yes they can be sued for legal malpractice.
MSgt. John DeLallo
9:51 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Leah:
Oh yes they can! In a worse case scenario, a lawyer can lose his license to practice, and quite frankly, I think the labor attorney is doing just that; practicing. Its very obvious that this has turned into a witch hunt, and the losers are the Dormont taxpayers, and the mayor, and the few councilpersons who are still in possession of their senses. The Dwyer incident is as silly as it gets. Had a position been advertised, I would have come out of retirement, thrown my "police experience", the fact that I have no Act 120 certification, and the fact that I can carry a firearm on the table and applied for the job. Here's a question for you. Since obtaining the Act 120 cert involves dragging a 200 pound dummy out of harms way, and running a quarter mile(?) in a specified time, and successfully passing the Police Academy, when can Dormont expect Dwyer to renew his certification. Acting police chief my tush, he's just another citizen, no different than thousands of Dormont residents. I wonder if a hard charging investigative reporter will ask Dwyer that question????? It should make for a very interesting article. Aren't all municipal positions supposed to be advertised? Perhaps this was, and I don't regularly read the want ads, but word around the campfire is that Dwyer's job may not have been. Illegal hire? You be the judge.
Lee
5:57 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
You are a very vengeful, hateful, jealous man. I thought you said you didn't even live in Dormont, go bother someone else.
MSgt. John DeLallo
2:09 pm on Friday, August 5, 2011
Well there, Lee, I guess I'm ugly, my feet stink, and I don't love anybody as well. You can take shots at me, but since you are a Dormont resident, you better start looking at this in a 360 degree view. Do you like what you see? Do you like an acting Chief who has no arrest authority, and is nit-picking parking tickets? Lee, you have to keep in mind that life is hard. Its really hard if you're stupid. Allowing your elected representatives to continue this circus atmosphere is not in your best interest. I'm assuming you did vote in the last election, right? If not, YOU go and bother someone else. I voted, worked as a poll watcher, and travel to Harrisburg with some frequency to lobby for bills that help the common man like you. Vengeful? I won't so much as spit in anyone's direction. Hateful? If you mean I don't suffer fools lightly, you can use that word. I "prefer intolerant". Jealous? Are you kidding me? I'm living quite well, I'm retired, have lots of loves in my life, and don't have a jealous bone in my body. I do, however, feel a pressing need to defend my friends Jim Burke, Phil Ross, and Tom Lloyd. If you think my comment about being equally qualified as Dwyer is jealousy, read it again. My comment points to the absurdity of hiring a police officer who is not a police officer. Dormont could have promoted a crossing guard for way under 5500 bucks a month. I do not live in Dormont. So what? Free speech ends at the boro line?
Lee
1:10 pm on Saturday, August 6, 2011
WOP2, you hit the nail on the head - they are your "FRIENDS" and you will "defend" them, no matter why they are at the center of so much controversy. If you are as experienced, knowledgeable, and as worldly as you claim to be, then tell me why "your friends" need "defending"? Could it be that you have witnessed the mayor consistently initiating controversy between the DPD and the council/manager with his abuse of power and lack of knowledge and boundaries. Could it be that the more the council/manager investigate, the more questionable behavior surround
"your friends", the issues unraveling are astonishing. "Your Friends" are supposed to be fair and just, as they are men of the law - they should not be retaliative individuals. Why didn't "your friend - the mayor" support the others that dismissed ticket? Instead, he threw his hands up in the air and blamed "your other friends" - throwing "your other friends" under the bus - what a nice guy that mayor is. As far as Mr. Dwyer, if Ross and the mayor would cooperate with the council/manager in a just, fair, professional manner, there would be no need for him.
Leah Petrilli
9:59 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Hola Wop! Como Esta? Ive been off the grid in this banana republic living the dream but even the local politcos down here cant believe this fiasco when I showed them. They have some colorful but less than legally acceptable (in the US) suggestions I must say. I hope the council of Dormont is proud to know even in the Southern Hemisphere they are being talked about and laughed at.
Viva La Revolucion! ;)
MSgt. John DeLallo
10:59 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Hey, Leah, WOP is just fine. Me allegro mucho tu comentario. Strangely, my Italian is lousy, but having worked for an Argentine company for 12 years, I remember the dirty wars, the Malvinas Island conflict, and tons of other "banana republic" goings on. Hey, Dwyer is fitting right in--"badges? I don't need no stinkin' badges." Maybe Gino should pick up on that same theme--"Badges? Boro Manager don't get no stinkin' badge!" I can only imagine the coup d'etat that your friends in South America are planning for Dormont. A few that I stay in touch with would likely fly in from Costa Rica, Brazil, and Argentina just for a practice run. On a serious note, at some point the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is going to step in. I'm sure Rep. Dan Deasy is about fed up with this silliness, and I'd be amazed if folks in the boro haven't been beating on his door. Same goes for State Senator Fontana.
James Keaney
10:08 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
I don't understand why there is a push to vote on this - it's going to end up being 6-1 again in favor of appeal since Joan couldn't get a second on her motion. Someone explain what good a vote would do, unless of course it's part of the Borough Code that they do vote, then I can see the argument.
James Keaney
11:02 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
I'm not saying I don't think it should be voted on - if its part of Borough Code, or some other law, than I think there should be a vote. if it isn't required to vote and we know what the vote is going to be then what is the point?
jim hodson
7:02 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
James,
Joan couldn't get a second for a motion that was never put on the floor. The boro solicitor prevented the motion.
James, Joan did not put a motion on the floor, Deron Gabriel prevented it.
Born & Raised in Dormont
10:58 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Dormont Resident I agree with you I have not noticed a difference with the police it's the same as it was 6 months ago no more no less they are still doing a great job like they have always done. I agree they need a way to justify Dwyer and his high priced position.
Bryan
11:15 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Chris Gabriel, the borough’s labor council, wasn't at the meeting, but later said a vote wasn’t needed.
“Did (council) take an official vote to turn the lights on and set the air conditioner, because that spends borough money,” he said. “Yes, they have to vote on borough things … but to take that to its logical conclusion, you would have to vote every time somebody sneezes."
Smart a** quotes like this show everyone what kind of attorney you really are Mr. Chris Gabriel. This is the type of insulting behavior put on by this council and the attorney’s they hire! They DO NOT give a damn about what the residents think they will push ahead with the agenda they have set forth no matter how bad the meetings get, no matter how many embarrassing articles are written in the local fish wrap and no matter how many upset residents comment on this here Patch! Our voices are not and will not be heard, they have proved this time and time and time again. Shame on you all!
To Heather's comment, you should have looked out your window 6 months ago! Dormont Police have always been visible and always been professional, as a community we are lucky to have the officers we do. Take the time to really speak to one of them you will see.
Dan Nephin
2:54 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
I can't find a link to it, but Kaitlynn Riely of the PG has an article on this in the South section today.
Cynthia Harris
3:36 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11216/1164948-55-0.stm
Carroll Banker
4:01 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Grow up and move on. Lets end this spitting contest.
Lauren Sabo
9:56 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
According to the Dormont Borough web site:
Civil Service Commission
Any Borough employing three or more members in its Police and Fire Departments must establish a civil service commission. The commission has the power to provide examination of applicants for positions and promotions, establish minimum qualifications for positions, test applicants for appointment, and provide hearings in cases of dismissals or reductions in rank.
These VOLUNTEERS are being sued by Dormont Borough Council not only to overturn their ruling but personally. NOTICE TO DEFEND."
"You have been sued in court. If you wish to defend against the claims set forth in the following pages, you must take action within 20 days after this complaint and notice are served, by entering a written appearance personally or by attorney and filing in writing with the court your defenses or objections to the claims set forth against you. You are warned that if you fail to do so, the case may proceed without you and a judgment may be entered against you by the court without further notice for any money claimed in the complaint or for any other claim or relief requested by the plaintiff (my note: the plaintiff is our own Borough Council). You may lose money or property or other rights important to you."
This needs to stop. Council demoted Ross. The Civil Service Commission overturned the demotion. Just because you did not get the ruling that you wanted, a decison was made. Drop the lawsuit.
mary pitcher
11:23 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Lauren, are you saying that the Borough is suing the people who served on the Civil Service Commission? These people were appointed by the Borough.... is that even possible? Some how I would think they are protected from a law suit when acting upon Borough business. Please confirm ...thanks.
Lauren Sabo
9:59 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Stop overspending our hard-earned dollar on these legal shenanigans!
The borough has spent $50,340 on special legal fees, including labor attorney fees, this year. The total budget for the year was $30,000.
Dan Nephin
11:28 pm on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Lauren:
That's the language of lawyerdom and court-ese; Legalese, if you will. There is NO separate, personal, legal action against the commission members. I checked with the borough's labor attorney and the commission's attorney. The words you quote are essentially a courthouse form letter that is required. There's no other legal action than the appeal, which asks for a judicial review. I will say this stuff can be hard for lay people to understand. I've been around it two decades. This one always makes me snicker: praecipe.