I have young childeren in KO schools and I would consider the 4 day week. The district has been dealt this hand by the gov. in terms of reduced funding and unfortunately changes will be inevitable. The most important thing is the integrity of the education being given. If the same level of teaching can be done, with the same course content, done over 4 days a week instead of 5, and saves the district significant money, I am willing to listen. I would want to know just how much savings this will produce, not only in terms of dollars, but how many programs/activities would be saved from the chopping block.

However, I think a manditory stipulation for a 4 day school week would HAVE to be the implimentation of FULL DAY KINDERGARTEN. The youngest of our kids need every opportunity to start off on the right foot. Going from half day for 5 days a week to half day for 4 days a week is NOT AN OPTION THAT SHOULD EVEN BE CONSIDERED.

Keystone Oaks school board continues to present one bad idea after the next. There are so many issues with this bad idea that it doesn't even make sense to entertain. A lot of them have already been talked about above like day care but what about a student's time to fit in all the homework they'll have? How about the studen't retention of what they've learned over a three day break? What about the fatigue of students? Union contracts would also have to be renegotiated. I could go on but I think I've made my point. Keystone Oaks school board continues to grasp at straws, whether it's consolidation, school closures or now four day weeks. I'll be thrilled when some of these people are voted out come November and we can get some fresh faces and ideas on the board.

ok

What do the working parents do with their children during the summer and scheduled days off of school. It could be worse and we could be considering a tracking system like they have out west where the children go to school for 8 weeks and then have 2 weeks off. You have to give the board members credit for researching all avenues.

If it is a choice between consolidating schools with the potential of having elem school kids in close proximity with high school students or having a 4 day week, then I am all for a 4 day week. I agree with Jeff that the district does need to offer a full-day kindergarten in order to make this a viable solution.

What amazes me is that through all the complaining, none came up with a solution to avoiding budget cuts. Budget cuts caused not by the KO school board or district, but by our anti-education governor. If not this idea then maybe we should cut the music program (such as is happening in the McGuffey schools)? Or cut back on athletics? Or end free busing? Instead of sitting back and criticizing ideas and talking about voting out people who ARE working to find a solution, maybe we should be threatening to vote out the person who caused this mess in the first place.

Let me start by saying that schools are not daycares, so educational decisions should not be made based off of arguments concerning those issues. Like wise, as I have read in other posts, school closures/consolidation decisions should not be made based on property values or the threats of parents leaving the district. School board issues need to be based primarily on what is going to make the most sense in educating our kids. Obviously there are other factors but if our schools maximize the use of their efforts and resources and provide meaningful and excellent education to all students then there is no reason KO shouldn't become one of the premiere schools in the area. While I do not agree fully with some of the ideas I do applaud the district in taking an active role to solve the budget issues and hope the people running for school board are making decisions with kids in mind. Personally, I am a big fan of the year round tri-semester system which, while probably not cost effective, has proven to be the most beneficial for students.

FYI, here is an interesting article about 4 day weeks in schools from Time (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1832864,00.html)

I feel this is a great idea. I DO NOT want my elementary aged children going to school with the high school and middle school kids, which was one stipulation of the consolidation idea. The kids would have to be bussed together, at the very least. When the middle school was built adjacent to the high school they said there would be no contact between the kids. Of course, they were wrong. The working parents would have to find a solution for childcare. They do this over breaks, snow days and summer too, so it is do-able! I think all ideas at this point are welcome. There are schools in other areas who are charging fees for the students to participate in various athletics programs...football, soccer, etc. and this has raised a good bit of money for the districts. I am ok with the 4 day week. Adding to previous comments, we have needed all day k for awhile but do not have room in the schools for it so this does need worked on.

Sounds like an ok idea on the surface. I have issue with the fact that our students cannot compete in academics or most sports with other districts. That being said, cutting back time spent in school leaves even less time for being taught. Someone already said that there is a lot of complaining but no solutions. Maybe you do 4 days plus an online day. I won't pretend that I know about such things but cyber schools are the way of the future. I don't know if that would save a money or not but maybe it's worth a look.

Who will provide the daycare- the school district? Come on! The responsibility is completely - Yours!!

I applaud that ideas are being considered.

This is the problem that school districts face... everyone feels that it is their responsibility to do much more than they should . Their primary responsibility is to educate , not provide you with daycare.

I'm not sure what the answer is yet. Not close enough to see all of the data. But one thing I do know is this. This proposed solution could wind up being a "stealth" tax increase. At least for parents that work. This idea might put off raising taxes, which is great. But the day care costs for working parents could easily be more than the tax increase that was avoided.

It's a creative idea, and I don't want to seem too critical too early. But we don't want to saddle people with added household expenses while trying to save them money, right???

If the decision is between a 4-day school week, larger class sizes & a consolidation, I would be much more interested in a consolidation compromise like a previous commenter mentioned - closing the elementary school that it would cost the most to repair and creating a primary / intermediate elementary school of K-3 and 4 &5. I really don't think consolidation is the worst thing at all, but I came from a school district which did just that (K-5 & 6-12 in 2 buildings on the same campus) so maybe I'm a bit biased. Also, I know that people don't want to see their beloved programs cut but it seems like without a consolidation, some sort of sacrifice must be made if there is no consolidation. My school growing up didn't have a swimming pool or tennis courts or an orchestra (stringed instruments), but we did have a lot of AP classes which are ultimately very very important to most college-bound students. I'm not saying that KO should strip their extracurriculars or services to the bone, but I think that if we saw every line item there has to be SOMETHING that could be cut before they make the drastic cut of closing multiple schools or going to a 4-day school week. I'm actually stunned that it's being put out there as an option. Are they really considering this or are they trying to give the worst-case scenarios to scare all the naysayers into signing on for the consolidation?

Less class time does not necessarily equate to less education. Lessons can be streamlined such that the same information is delivered to the student. Other class time use can be accounted for elsewhere when possible. Maybe students/teachers can set up 'office' hours through webcams, meeting in the library, etc. Maybe the auditorium can be opened for group work or for recitations with volunteer educators/parents/etc.

I keep reading 'stupid solution', 'fire them', etc, but where are your proposed solutions? It's a difficult problem with an ailing economy. It's time to think outside the box.

This is all so childish. Can we just stop with the fighting? If the school leaders said the sky is blue, people would challenge it. You don't want them to raise taxes, you don't want them to close schools, you don't want a 4 day week, you don't want a deficit, you don't want programs cut...what do you want?

Do you really think some brand new board will solve all the district's problems? (No offense to people who won the primary. In fact, congrats!) That new board should be scared to death because they will face tougher decisions than the current board. Corbett will make cuts every year, and federal dollars are being lost too.

A lot of colleges have 4-day weeks, so it would be a nice transition for kids. I admit I don't know every detail of the budget, but from what I've read, here's what I would propose: Move to a 4-day week, which would put a national spotlight on the district. It might attract people to move here. There are a lot of stay at home moms who would love to have their children home three days a week. It will bother some working families, but it might generate a babysitting opportunity for local high schoolers. The district would be seen as progressive, and let's face it, the same ol', same ol' isn't working anymore.

This is a really great debate, and I think its wonderful that people are exchanging ideas. I'm convinced that's the only way to solve our problems......by communication with residents.

But we are still missing a BIG piece of the puzzle. How much will a 4 day week save the district? If residents don't know the potential savings to the district, how can they truly evaluate this new option? Is it $100, $1,000, $10,000, $100,000 or $1,000,000? Without that piece of info, it's kind of a pointless discussion.

So how about it KO school board? You have a great discussion going on here that you can probably learn something from. Care to give the Dormont-Patch readers all of the information so that they can have an informed discussion?

Next, I agree that something has to be done with buildings, and it should be based on which costs the most to operate going forward. It would probably be the one in need of repair. Close that one and sell it. Use the two remaining elementary schools for K-3, use the other for 4-6; or K-2 and 3-5. I agree it would be a disaster to have 4-12 in the same building. If that’s still not enough, then you have to raise taxes a little every year until you’re sure you don’t need to cut education. A school board’s job is to make sure the students (not parents and district residents) get what they need. Without great education and great people to provide it, a school is failing its students.

Great discussion, folks! Check back during the coming days for an update story and other school news!

@DaveHommrich--Specific figures weren't immediately available. I expect to get more info in the next few days.

As much as I disagree with this idea I do agree that we need to see more information. I also think that this is a perfect illustration of why we need better leadership in the school board than what's currently there--there's no real information available for people to develop an intelligent opinion. I only bought my house about a year ago in the KO school district and in that short time, it seems to me that the school board is unresponsive to ideas, convinced in the strength of their own ideas, slow to release information for anyone to develop an opinion that doesn't agree with their own and more than willing to brush off people who disagree with them. I'd hate to think that private school is the direction I'm headed for my son but ultimately maybe that's the alternative, where someone understands I pay for their service, their job is to educate my child and I expect results and I expect accountability. The teachers seem to do a great job but I'm not thrilled with the school board.

I am a junior at Keystone Oaks. I personally think shortening the week is a fantastic idea. However, like Amanda said, it is silly to replace eight hours with only four IS silly. But an extension of eight hours (like the ones we would have lost) would be great. Instead of adding only a half hour and adding a whole hour would be better than having a whole other day as many classes take five or ten minutes to actually get started after attendance is taken and everything is all set up. I really like this idea and I'd love to see this go through!

I am a junior at Keystone Oaks and I personally think that making a 4 day week is amazing. The students are really struggling to finish all the school work they recieve over the weekend into 2 days, with 3 days they would be able to finish their work and still have some time to spare. With the 4 day week also students wouldn't have to wait a 1/2 and hour between the end of the day and their after school activities that begin at 3pm. Another thing a 4 days week would improve would be attendance. If we had a 4 day week more students would actually come to school instead of just skipping. I think this idea is fabulous and i feel it would be a wonderful improvement for the Keystone Oaks School District.

Full disclosure - Dave Hommrich and I are candidates for KO school board. We won our primary bids on Tuesday so we hope to continue these kinds of discussions with all of you as school directors. In fact, I pledge to remain active in discussion boards (like this one), Facebook, email, public meetings, and every other way I can think of to stay connected to KO residents in all communities. It should be very easy to get my attention, and I'll respond to all as best I can! As a taxpayer and KO parent myself, that's what I expect of school directors.
I think this discussion chain has already generated some great ideas and debate. I fully believe that is the process for getting to the right solutions for KO. The smart ideas being discussed above show how, working together, KO will make great leaps forward. Dave and I plan on posting a lot more District information publicly (without Open Records Requests needed!) so we can all discuss the facts together. I'm sure it will be hard to find solutions that please everyone 100% of the time. But at least everyone will know all of the facts in advance and will know their opinions were heard and considered.
I'll post my thoughts on the 4-day idea below.

Complex problems rarely have simple solutions. Most of the time, the solutions have strong positives and equally strong negatives. The 4-day school week certainly fits that mold. I agree with the financial data request made by Dave Hommrich above. I'll add a few more items needed (some stolen from other posters above) to make an informed decision (and probably think of 5 more after I post...)
1. % of KO families who would likely incur added childcare expenses
2. Average amount of increased childcare expenses for families who need it
3. Change in total instructional time
4. Impact on educational programming caused by #3.
5. Impacts from contractual changes (sounds like the solicitor is looking into this)
6. Summary of lessons learned in the 120 districts who are using the 4-day week
7. Changes to athletic/extracurricular activities
8. Possible uses for the buildings on Monday when students are off (new revenue?)
9. Estimate of net gain/loss of students caused by this change and impact on charter school tuition costs to KO.
The Board should do some serious homework on these and other questions, as well as engage the KO community, before taking this idea any further.

I'm so happy I voted for Dan & Dave! Their fresh ideas are just what this stale district needs!

It would be great to see all of you, who have posted today, at the School Board Meeting - tonight 7:30 p.m. Without your presence and questions being asked by ALL of you, the Board tends to be apathetic and thinks no one cares or is paying attention. I attend the meetings monthly. While many are tedious and, at times, boring. The same 5 -6 people are always there and we can only share our views in person. Put pressure on the Board by attending meetings. I believe the 4-day/week item is on the agenda tonight! Hope to see you there!

We moved to KO several years ago in part of its proximity to downtown Pittsburgh. While I loved that the elementary classes were small, I'm disappointed in the size of the middle and high school classes. How fair is it to the students that they have to be in classes with more than 30 kids at times?? Perhaps one of the elementary schools SHOULD be closed and the 6th grade SHOULD be moved to an intermediate school. This could free up the middle and high school teachers' schedules to allow for smaller sections of courses instead of cramming them all into one. My child also heard they're not replacing most of the retiring teachers and will be cutting classes. Again I ask how fair is that to the students??

Love that the school board is being creative. As long as the children don't lose instructional time I'm OK with it. I would also like the board to consider having a few number of classes per day with more time spent on a subject at least in high school. As one of the students above pointed out 42 minutes isn't long enough to cover alot of info. Kids spend a good portion of the day walking thru the halls to get to the next class, without much time to delve deep into a topic.

Would save a great deal of money on transportation and utilities. Considering the price of gas, why not put the money toward the actual education and not the buses and buildings if possible?

I like the idea as posed above with year-round, rotating school. No reason that today's kids should go to school based on the agrarian calendar.

Many families that don't have traditional full-time, daylight M-F schedules anyway. Many work other hours and days, or work from home. The 75 or more percentage of people in the district without children already pay for the education, and can't afford higher taxes. Your kid is sick, you make arrangements. Snow days? Same thing. At least parents can plan for these days off.

I'd like to know exactly how many Mondays in the year children have school . Take out at least 4 holidays and Christmas and Easter break, and summer, I bet the total number is much smaller than expected. In the US, kids don't spend much time in school at all.

I don't know if this entire 4 day week discussion is now a moot point, because at tonight's meeting the KO board blind-sided us with a vote to begin the school closure process for Myrtle and Aiken. The vote wasn't listed on the official agenda - it was a secretive last minute addendum. This lack of transparency is just another example of how they treat us with disrespect, as opposed to adults and taxpayers. Instead of trying to explain how pushing 4-5 in the middle school, and 7-8 into the high school is a good idea, we just get blind-sided. Instead of doing a study of the negative possibilities of consolidation - namely skyrocketing property tax if there is a mass exodus to charter and cyber schools, as well as drastic program cuts (think Ligonier Valley School District - Google it), they just plod on. And for this to happen just 48 hours after the election just stinks of spitefulness. June 8th is the date for the public hearing - hope most of you can make it.

I agree with the earlier comment that a "tracking " system may be a better alternative.

I would love for our local schools look into this as the savings and results from the schools out west that have implemented the system, have on their face, been impressive.

Schools are in session year round - with set tracks (your variant aged children would be placed on the same track) with 8 weeks on 2 off- or 10 weeks on 3 off- teachers included.

results show higher education retention vs sticking with the old agrarian set-up that we are accustomed to.

I agree with the earlier comment that a "tracking " system may be a better alternative.

I would love for our local schools to look into this as the savings and results from the schools out west that have implemented the system, have on their face, been impressive.

Schools are in session year round - with set tracks (your variant aged children would be placed on the same track) with 8 weeks on 2 off- or 10 weeks on 3 off- teachers included.

results show higher education retention vs sticking with the old agrarian set-up that we are accustomed to.

Also- the tracks overlap in most districts - so approx. 25% of the population is out and you lower facilities charges vs building more and more classrooms that sit idle for a significant portion of the year.

I have two kids at KO and i dont think 5 days is enough. If anything i would consider changing to a 6 day schedule. Keystone Oaks' education is lacking and I think more time in the classroom would really benefit the kids, and plus they would be out of the house more which is always a good thing. 5 days is short enough, but 4 days is rediculous!!!!

oh great another dumb idea by ko. its always about the money today

I would love if my son had a 4 day school week. I would work 4 days a week and my wife can work 4 days a week. I would rather see it Monday thru Thursday though. A 3 day weekend would be great and we could leave on thursday nights when there is less traffic than on fridays.

I also understand this may be hard for others, but I am just commenting on our situation.

So, in short, my wife and I are all for a 4 day school week Monday thru Thursday.

Maybe if employers follow suit, it could be 4 day work weeks for all. Seriously though, I would not like to see a four day week - namely because of needing to find childcare that fifth day. Traditionally, the school and work weeks have been built around each other. Many parents would be put out by a four day week. It would be interesting to see survey results of parents feelings toward this.

What about eliminating busing? What works for rural districts is going to 4 days because it saves a lot of transportation costs; however, KO is not a rural district. In a suburban environment, where many parents work professional job hours, and we have the luxury of sidewalks, is there any reason KO cannot be a walking district? Especially since there is a model for that right next door.

If the district really wanted to save money they would get rid of all the elementary buildings altogether. When I went there, there in the 70's there were 2000 kids in the high school and didn't feel over crowded. They could put middle and high school in same building and elementary in the middle school. However, they will have get better discipline in the school. I heard the middle school allowed very bad behavior, including fights in the halls and much bullying. Perhaps a change of Administration.

There would be plenty of idle high school kids to babysit.